Danny Pantuso, a venture capitalist with Decasonic, a Web3 venture fund, joins us today for a fascinating interview. Ryan and Danny explore Web3, blockchain tech, and its effects on the game business.
Since Danny has been playing video games for as long as he can remember, he has a plethora of insight to share. He treats gaming not only as a hobby but also as a career. When it comes to investigating how blockchain and Web3 technologies are altering the video game industry, he is at the vanguard of venture capitalists.
Danny, an engineer with a background in management science and engineering, describes how, at Deca Sonic, he has been able to merge his lifelong interest in video games with his career as a venture capitalist. His expertise is in the field of Web3 gaming, namely player agency, interoperability, and the development of innovative resources. While blockchain is certainly his area of expertise, he is also very interested in generative AI and its potential to revolutionize the gaming business. Below is the complete transcript of the chat.
Ryan
Thanks for coming today, Danny. Today we are hosting another episode of the Outsider Gaming Podcast, which is a podcast style interview series that we’re doing just about the gaming industry and trying to get our kind of a community building piece for us to relate to. The everyday gamer who visits OutsiderGaming. Most of the time people come to our website to hear about game guides. The latest sports games are huge for our website, but all sorts of console games, classic titles as well as the latest and greatest type of games. So, I appreciate you coming, and I’ll let you take it away. You know, if you could give us a little bit about who you are, what you do, some of the stuff you’re working on right now and get started like that.
Danny
Yeah. Sweet. Well, first off, Ryan, thanks for having me. Yeah. So just a little bit of background. I’ve been a lifelong gamer. I think I’ve played just about every genre. And over I think I did the math. I did over 10,000 hours, total logged between my Xbox, Steam and some mobile games. So, when I say like, you know, you built an expert in gaming, it really is as a gamer first, but you know professionally as well. So today I’m a venture capitalist at Deca Sonic. We’re a Web3 venture fund. And a lot of what I focus on is gaming and how blockchain is really creating a new generation of web3 gaming. So, focus deeply on this idea of player ownership, interoperability and creating that next gen set of tools. But we also invest in different types of gaming, you know, kind of the traditional mobile casual to hardcore. And you know, my background before that was in management, science and engineering, an engineer by trade, an entrepreneur and a product manager. So, I’m applying all of that now to my investment thesis in gaming as also a lifelong gamer.
Ryan
Awesome. Well, guess I’ll start. I’ll start there with some of the topics that you brought up. I know like again, I learned so much from talking to industry veterans like yourself and lifelong gamers. And I know there’s a lot of jargon around some of the stuff that we’re going to talk about today. So maybe we’ll get that out of the way first. Like, could you give in your, you know, layman’s terms or terms that any average gamer would be able to understand some of the things that you said? Like, first of all, blockchain and web3 are two terms that might come up during this conversation that we can get out of the way and kind of explain.
Danny
For sure. Absolutely. Yeah. So web3 means a variety of different things to different people. But for us, we really think of it as this next generation of the internet that is built upon a technology, the blockchain and the blockchain is essentially an open ledger. It’s a back end that anyone can access, read and write to. And what that means is you can kind of disintermediate. You cannot rely on a trusted third party when you can rely on this trusted source of information, which is the blockchain, which we all know how it operates, we know how it works. And so, for things like owning a skin rather than relying on Activision and their servers to tell me, yes, you own this skin, we can instead look to the blockchain and say yes, everyone understands that you own this skin and therefore you can use it in any game that kind of will respect that ownership claim. So that’s the blockchain and then that’s web3 as well.
Ryan
Okay. And then also on those other terms that we mentioned in relation to gaming, obviously, like for something like AI and how it relates to what you do with Deca Sonic, give it like a short definition there if you could.
Danny
Definitely. So, we’re looking a lot at generative AI. So that’s a type of model these days that uses pretty advanced machine learning to generate text images, different assets, right? And so, we’re investing in a variety of tools across the gaming industry as well as games themselves that use generative AI to either make the game creation process better or to create new game mechanics or to create character NPC personalities. So, there’s a variety of ways that we use AI in gaming today. I think it’s actually kind of a shining moment for gaming because this technology is just so applicable to the gaming industry, and I think gaming gamers around the world within the next 2 to 3 years are going to have games that have kind of fun elements that previously just weren’t possible for. It’s going to be kind of a revolution.
Ryan
So yeah, I guess all these things kind of come together into what you call Web3, right? Is that fair to say?
Ryan
Exactly.
Danny
Exactly. So, at the highest level, like the original web was kind of static Web browsers, Https was kind of these first standards and that was basically just what they call read capabilities. People could put up static web pages and you could read them. Then, Web2 was characterized by the ability to kind of write… that’s Facebook and posting and sharing. And that was kind of like when the average person started to kind of like actually be on the Internet and start to write to the Internet and be active participants in it rather than just kind of reading what companies have put out there. And this next generation of Web three is this ownership layer of saying, okay, now we have the blockchain to tell us who owns what and we don’t need to trust anyone else’s verification. And that means we can really start to own the internet and things on it in different ways that weren’t really possible. So, I think, you know, the blockchain is really foundational to that ownership layer, and I think more and more the eye is part of this kind of generative, creating the things that end up being owned and discussed and talked about on the internet. And they together comprise Web3.
Ryan
Cool.
Ryan
That’s a good breakdown. I appreciate that. As someone who’s, you know, I’m coming more of like a novice gamer, you know, not someone who’s too tech savvy, you know, like CMS, WordPress, you know, like things, any content writer, journalist, you know, project manager, website project manager, manager works on. So, some of these other tools and software are a little bit more obscure to me. But I’m like, obviously these conversations help tons. But where, where does your company come in? You know, kind of merging all these new technologies with gaming specifically.
Danny
Yeah, great, great question. So, our general partner, kind of the manager of the fund, Paul Hsu, was part of the executive team that took Zynga Public and Zynga is a big casual mobile game publisher around the world. So, he really knows what it is to make games into good businesses and it’s actually a key part of the ecosystem. I’ve come to realize now as an investor that you really can’t make these amazing world class games that players get behind unless they’re profitable, right? It needs to be a win-win. And so, you know, when these companies can make more money, they can make better and bigger experiences for us all. So, you know, what we look to do is invest in these technologies when they’re in their early stages. So when a company is just an idea or has a kind of the first inkling of a prototype to kind of prove to us that they’re capable of building it, that’s where we’ll start to invest and kind of give our expertise both as business operators and then also with our kind of like knowledge of the technologies to say, okay, we love your idea, here’s best how to either use blockchain or AI to create a business that can ultimately propel you to make games that reach millions of people.
Ryan
Cool. Yeah. So, I guess going with that idea and your and Deca Sonic and investing in, you know, new ventures and new games, are there any things that you’ve worked on or invested in or going to invest in that you could talk to and kind of give some real-life examples for the audience?
Danny
Definitely. Definitely. So, we have two unannounced deals I’d love to talk to you about, and I’m sure we’ll follow up soon. But one of them I can’t say it by name, but one of them is in the generative AI space for game assets. So essentially, describe what you are looking for. And then in seconds, this can create a potion, or a magic wand and you can take this file as an image and put it directly into your game. So whereas before you needed an entire art team’s directors, directors of art and studios to create all the things that went into the game, now you can just use a simple tool to generate any type of asset you want, and they’re kind of building that out from 2D assets to 3D assets to eventually the point where you can just say, hey, create a room with four windows, a door, this type table and, you know, generate and they’ll spin something up just like that, a fully 3D model. So, you just take the process of game design, and you make it just ten x faster, right? And so, you’ll always need this artist to kind of put the polish on it and make sure the table has four legs rather than five. Right? There are still some kinks to be worked out, but that’s a really innovative company. And the second thing they do just talk on this level is that, you know, a lot of artists are worried, oh, this is going to steal our jobs, it’s going to steal our art. But using the blockchain, what this company is able to do is create databases. And anytime that you create an asset, let’s say a magic wand based on the training set of images that come from a certain artist, you can give that artist credit and pay them every time that asset is used, right?
Danny
That’s the beautiful thing about the blockchain because everyone knows what’s owned. It’s kind of publicly available. Everyone can cite back and say, oh yes, this art style is unique to this artist, and we can give you credit every time somebody creates a new generated image that’s based on the original. So, I think that’s really cool, like the confluence of both blockchain and AI and gaming.
Ryan
Yeah.
Ryan
Yeah. I think the idea is like the purist idea of things not being like being someone’s, you know, own, this is my art, or this is what I created. Like it’s nice, but at the same time, like anyone that’s been in art or development knows that anything good is probably copied a little bit, you know, at least like a little piece of this, a little piece of that, you know, that’s kind of how these things move forward and get better. Whether it’s art, website development, software development, things like that. So, I, you know, I see both sides for sure, but I think it’s a cool thing for someone like me to hear that because never would I have thought I could create, you know, a room in a game like you said, or a special wand. If I’m playing a Harry Potter game or something like that, you know, that’s cool.
Danny
Exactly. And it really democratizes like these creator tools, right? Instead of having to spend years and years to learn Photoshop, you can spend minutes to kind of create the same effect today. And I think that’s just going to unleash a lot of creativity and make it so that anyone can really create the games. Everyone can kind of participate. I think more and more games will have abilities for the average person to be a Modder and to be a creator. And so, you take a game kind of like Fortnite, and you say, hey, you know, go out and kind of create any mods you want and like we’re going to help you create game modes. And if you create a game mode that’s, you know, really fun and engaging, we’ll pay you for the kind of traffic you bring, right? And so, I think, I think it’ll be a great thing. These tools will really enable a new wave of collaboration and different types of game creation.
Ryan
Yes, I think I talked about this briefly in one of the interviews I did with a guy named Mark Long. And he was talking about a game that he’s helping to create called shrapnel, which is like a first-person shooter type thing. And he plans to have all these capabilities available for the game’s players. So, I’m assuming it’s kind of what you’re talking about, but like just within his ecosystem of that game. But the company that you’re talking about that you’re investing in is probably like a third party that would offer this service to other games, I’m assuming.
Danny
Exactly. Exactly. Yeah. So super familiar with Mark Long and Shrapne.l I think it is going to be kind of the first triple-A game that has like true, kind of like web3 mechanics, you know? So, player ownership, NFT trading, you know, it’s kind of a bad word, but really like a kind of digital asset trading. So, you buy this game, you can resell it, you can give it to your friends, etcetera. Like that. Yeah, Mark’s a great guy and I’m sure as a savvy developer, like he is using this tool and like I said, wish I could name it, there’s a variety of them out there, but I think this one is really like a market leader. And he would be using this tool Exactly.
Ryan
Nice. Any, any other ventures we’re talking about with that? Either if you can name or can’t or can’t.
Danny
Yeah, there’s a variety. So, you know, one other investment we just made was in this long-time game creator he’s made three of the biggest first-person shooter titles. You know really in the world and he’s coming out with a fourth one and we’re really excited to back him. I think he’s kind of a legendary game designer and this is going to take the principles of a game that looks a little bit like Grand Theft Auto, where there’s an ever-permanent map and there are kind of macro forces that are constantly affecting the map. There are clans and there are kind of like you go to certain points on the map to kind of join quests to do, for instance, like a race car or a team deathmatch or etcetera. So, it’s this kind of ever-present world that you can hop into. You can kind of constantly craft, battle, upgrade, steal other people’s loot. There will be kind of like lots of land that clans will own and build fortresses, kind of create death traps and prevent looters. And imagine Sea of Thieves meets Grand Theft Auto and like kind of a really fun first-person shooter dynamic. So that’s another investment we’ve just made. That’s a game that will probably take 2 to 3 years to launch. You know, that’s the key thing about investing in games is that oftentimes, you know, it’s really hits driven and you don’t know how good the business is until the game launches and you kind of know, well, does the audience, does the world like this game or not? So, there are risky bets there, long bets. And so that’s why oftentimes we look to invest in founders that have 2 or 3 different game titles under their belts because those are the people, you know, that know how to execute and create a game.
Danny
It doesn’t necessarily mean the game will be a huge hit, but you do know at least that they’re going to get it to market. They’ll know the best practices for core loops and engaging audiences. So that’s a big one. And I’m kind of always on the hunt for different types of models and gaming. You know, we’ve made two investments in the last six months, and I think many more will come soon.
Ryan
Awesome. Yeah, it kind of reminds me of a little bit of how movies are, you know, kind of created and starting them all the way to hoping you know what the box office sales will be and then the after effect of that. Is it a classic? Is it just something that’s going to get, you know, initial one year play time and then it falls by the wayside? So, I guess how is that process and how do you vet it? Like, is it a lot like, you know, these movies like, you know, apparently Barbie spent 150 million on marketing. That’s just the most recent example. And obviously, I think it did pretty well and people were excited about it. But how do you kind of predict that for the investments that you’re making?
Danny
Yeah. Again, really good question. It’s no simple science really to go to figure out what games will be hits. Right. That’s a little bit of like this X factor art more than science but I think you know we’ve seen like with Cyberpunk 2077 that was a huge flop despite all the marketing that went into it. Right? It was just kind of like the game was announced early. We can look back in time and point after, you know, time and time again, different kinds of flops that were very well marketed. So, it’s not always the marketing, although that I think is a key part. I really think it’s kind of the core, the core loop, knowing your audience, executing on the vision that you lay out. I think a lot of the time where expectations fall flat is when you don’t deliver on what was promised, right? And so that was really where a lot of games go wrong when they say, hey, look at this beautiful game, look at this cutscene. You are kind of promised this beautiful triple-A experience and then it’s buggy on launch. Or it has half the features that you said it would. So oftentimes what we look for is founders that ship early and often. Right. I think there’s no like there’s kind of no upper limit on how much customer feedback you can get. So, with our most recent investment, they’ve been in development for only three months, and they already have a playable prototype. So, I was able to kind of log in, you know, move around, jump, understand what the art style feels like, and it’s like, wow, I’m already getting kind of a taste of that magic. And then I think the other key part is like investing in a team, right?
Danny
You’ve just seen somebody who’s done it once or twice before and you’re like, wow, this is somebody I can get behind, right? And they know that that’s where, like, expertise really, I think in gaming more than other industries, it really pays to kind of have been around the block more than once.
Ryan
Awesome. Yeah, that definitely makes sense. Yeah. And I mean, just as you say that if you ever need gamers to test your test these games reach out because we’ve got a lot of writers and longtime gamers who are always chomping at the bit to try new games and get that like pre-release and write an article and do all that. They love that. So just, Oh, absolutely.
Danny
I will 100% keep you posted on that because as a game studio too, you’re looking for people who are kind of seasoned gamers and it’s actually not as easy to find to get feedback you can trust. So yeah, 100% like, you know, cool.
Ryan
Um, yeah. I guess circling back to some of the initial topics that we were emailing about before this, I feel like you have an interesting perspective because you’re also on the investing side and you’re kind of the, the M&A mergers and acquisitions side, so to speak. And as that relates to gaming news that our gamers will see, you know, one of the things we talked about was Microsoft announcing they will acquire a certain publisher or it was, you know, there were a couple of different news bits. So, I guess that’s part of the question to you: what is big news right now in the gaming industry and how do you think that applies to like the average gamer and how do they kind of decipher what’s going on?
Ryan
Yeah.
Danny
I mean, again. Yeah. Big question there. But I think just some big headlines I’ve been watching recently: So you mentioned Microsoft’s acquisition of Activision Blizzard. So that’s a huge acquisition in the gaming world. I think, you know, what I’m looking at there Is that they’re the SEC sorry. You know, a variety of other kinds of anti-monopolistic regulatory bodies are saying, wow, if Microsoft starts to own the world’s second largest publisher, they’ll have a huge monopoly. It’ll be unfair to Sony. And then these court cases, I think what’s more interesting than the acquisition itself is kind of like what’s come out in the court when they prove that this won’t be a monopoly. And I thought it was fascinating that Call of duty actually represents 30% of all the gameplay on PlayStation, right? So that’s why they’re worried about Microsoft owning Activision Blizzard is because they’re worried that they’ll take Call of Duty off the PlayStation. That was their biggest thing. But Microsoft has basically a lot of public promises saying that they won’t and that they’ll be quiet, you know, they won’t be restrictive in terms of what’s allowed on Sony versus what will be an Xbox exclusive. So, I think when it comes to gamers, I think it won’t have a ton of impact. I think the most likely impact I see today is that the Xbox game pass, the $5 a month all access pass to the Xbox studio games, we’ll just get that much sweeter. I think it’ll include all the Blizzard Activision games at a sweet price. I think that’ll be a true unlock and that’ll both carry through to Xbox and PC. But all in all, I think the other big news that came out of that acquisition was that Xbox is essentially publicly admitting at this point that they’ve lost the console wars.
Danny
And as somebody who grew up with an Xbox, I was disappointed because I always thought it was the superior console and controller. But they’ve basically given up and they’re looking to pivot. So, I think that’s why they’re kind of acquiring Activision Blizzard. They’re looking to start to kind of move more into the game development and the game publishing realm rather than having to compete strictly on the console wars. So that was big news. I’d say other big news that I’m looking at is that Valve recently announced that they’d be banning games that were using generative AI art that it couldn’t attribute. Yeah, so that’ll be fascinating. And I think it’s a huge role for our portfolio company to step in and say, hey, we are protecting artists rights and their exclusive IP and artistic style while also enabling people to use these generative AI tools. So that was another big one, I’d say kind of week by week. I’m always kind of having to stay in the know. A huge part of being successful in this job is that at any moment, you know, these kinds of big announcements, these big headlines can either make for incredible investment opportunities or can really mess, you know, change the opportunity that you thought it was and overnight it might be gone. So, yeah, I’m constantly looking at that. Those are probably the big two things in my mind right now.
Ryan
Yeah, I just pulled up one of my notes and I saw that, to your point, Microsoft and Sony reached a deal to keep Call of Duty on Sony’s PlayStation for at least ten years. So, for anyone that was worried about that, obviously for the next ten years, it’s good. But I guess that just also means that Microsoft is going to be working with Activision Blizzard, right? That’s the one they acquired is going to be working with them to have new games that don’t have anything to do with or won’t be available on these other consoles.
Ryan
Yeah, very.
Danny
Likely. I think that’s highly likely now. And one of their big announcements too, in the acquisition space was Take-Two Interactive just announced that they would be acquiring Zynga for $11 billion. So that’s another big merger that still needs to be approved, but I think that won’t go through. I think they’re kind of not quite at the sale of Microsoft and Activision. So again, we’re seeing, you know, in the first three quarters of last year alone, the value of the acquisitions in the sector totaled over $35 billion. So, it’s a big period for M&A right now. And overall, I think it’ll make for better gaming experiences. I think when you have that much talent in one room, you often end up making very marquee titles. And, you know, I think it’ll be good for the ecosystem, but we’ll have to see.
Ryan
Yeah. I guess that was going to be my next question… Is this competition overall going to be good or is it making it harder for, you know, more gamers to just have a better gaming experience?
Danny
Overall it’s oftentimes a good thing when there is an acquisition in the gaming world because you have to imagine that a lot of these studios start out with just a handful of developers with a passion project, and anytime these small studios can get acquired by the medium fish and those medium fish get acquired by the big fish, it just means that there’s kind of more money flowing into games, and I think it helps. It really you know, a lot of the time people don’t realize that the gaming industry is oftentimes an underpaid sector. You know, for the same type of development talent. You get paid, you know, roughly 30, 40% less for working at a gaming company because so many people love games and are willing to do it out of passion. But a lot of some of the best-known games, like even among us, those developers did not make much money despite it being one of the most popular games because they didn’t have great monetization mechanisms and they were an indie studio. They could almost not keep up with the success they were having. And so, when these type studios get acquired, it’s just a nice payday for these developers. It enables them to go start their next passion project with a little bit more, you know, change in their pocket. And so overall, I think it’s good. I think there’s never any shortage of indie studios. If you look at the number of games that are published every year, 70% or more are indie title studios, and they never really go to many places because they don’t have much funding. But the more funding that flows down to these types of studios, the more and better experiences we’re going to have as gamers.
Ryan
Yeah.
Ryan
And mean to that last point and kind of just playing devil’s advocate too. Like on one hand, you have, like you said, more money, more investment, more time, more people, more hands. What about the other side? Because a lot of the time, you know, you’ll hear about someone who had this set budget to make, you know, this, this thing that they were very passionate about. They allocated all the funds really, really well. And they made a budget. They did more with that because of their passion and because of, you know, just the necessity to do so. What do you think of any examples, I guess of what I’m talking about? In my mind, I’m thinking of movies, but also gaming. Like, does that happen a lot?
Danny
Where the founder basically doesn’t have enough money to kind of get something over the finish line or guess kind of kill it?
Ryan
Yeah. No, I guess I’m talking about obviously, like you said, you know, more money, more hands on and, you know, more ability to have a great experience. But I’m sure there are examples of the other side where it’s like we just have such a small budget, but we’re so passionate that we want to get this project out, you know? Are there any examples of that as well?
Danny
Definitely. Definitely. Yeah. I was actually talking to Will Stall the founder of a studio that built Arma and then eventually sorry, they were building a mod on Arma and they built Squad, which is kind of a, you know, growing tactical first person shooter. And they most recently released post Scriptum. And both were like huge breakout successes that grew out of mods. Their team was originally three people and they kind of were developing a passion project, kind of building on the fundamentals of Arma. Eventually they, based on their success with the Mod and then later their game they built off World Studios and you know, it’s hyper successful. So, there are definitely examples of kinds of studios with just kind of bootstrapping their way: Among Us was another great example. I think the studio behind It Takes Two was also one of those studios that just kind of came from nothing and had a huge breakout success and was bought. So, it happens all the time. And sometimes on the flip side, too much money can be the kiss of death for a company. So, a lot of expectations.
Ryan
Totally.
Danny
I don’t know if you’ve ever bought into Star Citizen, but that game raised over $500 million in crowdsourced money, and they raised it on the back of these beautiful cinematics for this kind of new type of RPG in space. It was supposed to be a whole world to kind of compete with Eve, more accessible, more fun. And they barely have more than like a couple spaceships in like a sandbox environment in a black empty space. It is crazy. And as one of the original founders, I pre-ordered this. I put $200 in and bought the founder’s pack, you know, so I could have early access and kind of, you know, support the developers I believed in. And it’s been nothing but a letdown spot with you. So, you know, that’s another thing that happens, right? I mean I simply don’t know what has happened to that money. But to me, you raised $500 million, and they have what they have to show for it today. And you’re like, well, you know, it boggles the mind compared to what some small indie studios can do.
Ryan
For sure. And. Going on that, I saw I know, like you going back to, like, kind of the beginning of the conversation and you as a gamer, what are some of your favorite games that whether they’re classic titles or games you’ve played recently, what are you most interested in personally?
Danny
So, I love real time strategy games. There have been plenty that come and go. I think what kind of really caught my fancy today is total war. I just love the lore in it and the games itself. But really, I kept it up to date on a lot of the game releases. I think those would be some interesting stuff. And the first-person shooter genre as player ownership becomes the concept and you’re able to kind of like buy and sell the skins that you have and kind of co-create some of these games with you. So, like I said, I could go down a rabbit hole in terms of the games that I played. But yeah, you know, in particular, our real time strategy is like what I always come back to.
Ryan
And what was the game you said is, is the real time strategy, war.
Danny
Total Warhammer and it’s a series. They have both a fantasy world that they’ve built out and then also historical titles like Rome Shogun, which is in Japan.
Ryan
Yeah, I’ve heard of these. Yeah. Cool. Interesting. Yeah. I mean that that kind of goes through all my questions, but I guess the more personal stuff and getting down to like, just being, you know, like the everyday gamer. What, what were the games you kind of grew up playing and kind of games that maybe you still go back to or wish you could do a remaster or something like that?
Danny
Oh, man. Good question. I mean, as a gamer, I’ve. I’ve always loved games that really, like, they don’t sacrifice lore and they don’t incentivize twitchy gameplay and they kind of stick to the basics. So, I just harkened back to like Modern Warfare two, I thought that was an amazing game, just kind of proceeding your way through those. I’ve tried to get back into those lobbies and they all end up being kind of hacked or cracked where everyone in there is just way too good or they’re just hack lobbies, you know? I wasn’t able to, you know, pull up my xbox360 and I couldn’t join a lobby. There was nobody in it. But that was a great one. Battlefield three. I mean, the Destructible Terrain was awesome on that. And the way that you, like, leveled up your class systems, right? I mean, like, have you ever, like, were sniping with bolt actions on Battlefield three? But there is nothing that feels better than getting a headshot on that.
Ryan
Yeah. Yes.
Ryan
I’ve had just a little experience playing that, mostly just watching my friends who are way better than me playing that. But yeah.
Danny
Totally, totally. Or there would be some hardpoint right on an objective. And in Battlefield two, you could do this as well, where you just roll up in a tank and just be like, I’m going to shoot this building until it comes down. Like I’m done with the sniper in that building. So yeah, they don’t make it like they used to.
Danny
Destructible terrain. I think Starcraft Two just kind of like the solidity of that game. I love it. Skyrim. Another one that was just epic. I don’t know if I’m dating myself based on the games or referencing, but I think those were all classics.
Ryan
I mean, I’m 27 years old. I’m from the Philadelphia area, Pennsylvania, and currently I live in New Jersey. But I mean, the games I grew up playing were like. I mean, PlayStation two was probably PlayStation two, and GameCube were my first systems I played on, I want to say. And then my aunt had like an N64, like that wasn’t mine. I would play it at her house, but like, yeah, NBA Street was probably like my favorite PlayStation two game. Battlefront, Star Wars Battlefront. I remember, um, and then GameCube we would play strikers, just super strikers, the soccer game just relentlessly. And we still play that. I still have a GameCube. Um, and I refused to get the new strikers battle league, so I just want to play the GameCube one.
Ryan
That’s awesome. That is OG. Is it like literally.
Danny
Is it an emulator or is it like the old GameCube you have? It still works.
Ryan
No, I still have the GameCube. It still works. Still got it. Yeah. It’s sick.
Ryan
Man. That is OG.
Danny
I feel like any longer, like, you know, if it lasts any longer, you can, like, kind of sell it as a collectible and antique at some point. Yeah, I mean, that’s pretty sweet. Yeah.
Ryan
So that’s kind of my gaming background. Very casual, but more of like, the games that brought my friends together, I guess. And we would just talk shit. So, yeah.
Ryan
Yeah, but that’s pretty much all I got these days. I mean, my background kind of like I was, I worked for, I worked for Treasure Hunter, Outsider Gaming was the first website that they acquired where I was, um, the project manager for. So immediately they had all this Nintendo Switch content. So, I got a Switch, and I got Pokémon Scarlet, and I was just obsessed with that. And I’m half ashamed to say it, but it’s just freaking cool because the last time I played Pokémon when I was like 12 or 13 on my Gameboy and then playing it again on the switch was pretty cool. And then just since then got like Tony Hawk Pro Skater, the remastered version, and then, you know, what’s it called? Mortal Kombat. That’s another great game to play with friends. So. Oh yeah, stuff like that.
Danny
Yeah, that’s big talk in the game for sure.
Ryan
Yeah
Danny
Really back it up like this when you split somebody in half like.
Ryan
Yeah buddy.
Danny
So, I have another question for you actually, which is have you tried out any VR games?
Ryan
I haven’t yet. And actually, I saw that, and I meant to ask you about it. I haven’t, I haven’t tried any yet, but we have a writer on our team who did a bunch of he has the, I guess, Quest two. And he tested a bunch of products from a company called Zyber VR, and they had like a golf, I guess a golf club, golf club that he could test and then like a headset and then I forget what else he tested. But I don’t personally have any experience with it, but I know one of our writers has it, loves it, and he’s been testing products in the VR space.
Danny
Yeah, no, I’m just wondering, because I’m starting to wonder if the time is now again for AR and VR. And so, what I find consistently is that a lot of core gamers don’t play VR games. And I think it’s just kind of not there yet. The ones I have are a little bit arcadey, a little bit kind of underwhelming, half baked. Um, so yeah, but I think I’m seeing a lot of games through different websites that are actually pretty innovative and gameplay that is only possible thanks to a VR headset. So, there might be something around the corner. I think like with generative AI, it’s so much, it’s so useful for making 3D assets traditionally, like 3D has been really hard and expensive, which means that a lot of the games end up being lower fidelity because it’s just too expensive to make kind of those triple-A graphics and also do it in VR. So, I think we could be seeing a heyday, but it wouldn’t be next year. But you know, within the next five, I think really kind of the arc could take shape, especially thanks to Apple driving it.
Ryan
Yeah. Do you have any investments in AR or VR right now or.
Danny
We do. And I’m looking to do more. But right now, one is like a core infrastructure technology company called Marwari, and they do streaming of volumetric data. So, AR VR volumetric is 3D data and it’s generally very dense and very heavy and so you can’t stream it. So, if you’re trying to do some kind of live streaming of AR VR, it’s impossible these days and they enable that. So that’s a really cool company. 1 or 2 other companies are kind of developing AR VR experiences as well as kind of like essentially, they’re working with NFTs and saying like, okay, what utility can we give it? Oh, okay. We can bring this thing to life and kind of showcase it and. AR and, and then, yeah, I think now with the Vision Pro coming out this year, it could totally disrupt what we think we knew about the space. So, we’ll see.
Ryan
Yeah. I mean you hear like, I listen to the Zuckerberg and Rogan podcast and you hear him talk about it and you’re like, wow, like. He’s investing pretty heavily. It seems like he’s investing pretty heavily in it. He seems pretty keen on the success of their metaverse or whatever the, you know, whatever he comes up with. So, yeah, like I said, I never had any experience with it, but it seems like that’s going to be the next thing like it’ll only make sense and, and for simulation games like people love. Like I was talking to some guys that were, you know, they like racing games or like golf simulator games, like racing courses that you’d never see in real life or playing golf courses that you’d never see in real life. I’m a surfer, so like, if there was ever a time that a game could be as real as reality, I don’t believe it could be. But if that ever became reality, I would be. I mean, shocked, to say the least. Yeah.
Danny
Yeah. I mean, it’d be like, Plug me in, baby. Don’t take me out, you know?
Ryan
Yeah.
Danny
Make sure I have enough money to pay for, like, power for 78 years and then just kind of like, surf forever in the metaverse. I would. I mean. I mean, that’s it’s pretty cool when you think. I think it’s close. I think it’s close. One of the things before I let you go in terms of topics that, you know, people are talking about and kind of big news, it’s not quite news today, but I think streamers are really taking over in a good way. The gaming industry and a lot of the media and marketing around it. So whereas before it was kind of up to like IGN and E3 to kind of like get titles out there and like make the market aware, I think more and more streamers play that role, which is good because it’s kind of like that 1 to 1 direct relationship and it’s very democratized and your incentives are, you know, to be fair and transparent and not to just kind of say whatever somebody paid you for. But what’s kind of an iteration on that is that a lot of the streamers are now working with and in hand with studios to actually make the games that they want to see. So, I know Dr. Disrespect is working. He’s working with a studio called Midnight Studios. They’re creating a new first-person shooter that is, you know, being designed by one of the most popular streamers. Um, I think there’s a consortium of streamers also working with Super Joy Studios to make, you know, another triple A title. And so, I think that it’s like Ninja Timthetatman, Sypherpk, Courage, Nickmercs. These guys are all working together with super joy to like to release this next game that should come out this year. So, a lot of people are talking about it today.
Danny
There’s kind of a more and more active role that streamers are playing, but I think a lot of the top streamers now are true celebrities in the gaming world and they have a lot of clout in terms of what gets picked up. And so, yeah, like I think when this new battle royale drops and they’ve got their name on it and they really brand it, I think we’re going to see kind of like a new paradigm for how games get released and how critical it is to work with streamers to do that.
Ryan
And sorry. Say that Battle Royale game again.
Danny
Yeah. So, I don’t know what the name is. It’s called Project V. They haven’t quite released the game yet, but it’s being made by Super Joy Studios and it’s like we’re talking to that management team and seeing how we can get involved. And then the other one is Midnight Studios. And so together, I think they’re both going to be released in the next year and they’re also using some kind of blockchain payment rails. So like NFT pre-sales, stuff like that, because it is a lot more equitable. I think like as a player you then own your founder’s pass, you can resell it if you want. You can buy, buy into the thing and you can sell out of it. And so, I think, I think they’re really showcasing kind of like the potential of a forward future of what Web3 and crypto looks like in gaming. And it’s not, you know, kind of like the pump and dump. Shilling, you know, it’s going to be what we know and love in games with a much fairer rail and using blockchain in ways that hasn’t been done before.
Ryan
Yeah, it all seems really exciting, honestly. And like going back to what you said about just users, whether they’re streamers or just someone who plays the game a lot, having more of an input. I think it’s a good thing for sure. So, but yeah, I’ll leave it there. I don’t want to take any more of your time today, but yeah, again, stay in touch.
Conclusion
Finally, we can say that this interview has taken us on an interesting trip to the crossroads of gaming, Web3, blockchain, and AI. Danny’s analysis has shed light on how these novel technologies may one day revolutionize the gaming sector and enrich the user experience.
We now have a more nuanced knowledge of how innovations like blockchain are changing ownership and trust in gaming, and how generative AI is speeding up game creation and encouraging creativity.
We’ve also learnt about Decasonic’s foray into these uncharted waters by funding innovative technologies that have the potential to revolutionize the video game industry from the ground up.
We’re dedicated to keeping up with the ever-changing gaming industry and sharing our knowledgeable opinions and in-depth talks with you. We can’t wait to learn more as both games and technology grow together.
Danny, you have our deepest appreciation for taking the time to present to us today. We appreciate you watching as we explore the promising landscape of gaming and technology’s future.